I recently started a new dwarven hunter, Oryan, on a low population
realm as I was sick of the queues that I had to endure to play my main
character. In any case, at level 12 I picked up the following from the
corpse of some unfortunate beast, that had died in the jaws of my
faithful bear Ursa:

Recipe: Swiftness Potion

Now, as I have never had an alchemist char I had absolutely no idea
what this item was worth. So, I had a browse on the AH but no others
were on sale for me to judge the price. I did however notice that the
potions themselves were on sale for a couple of gold, so I figured the
recipe had to be either worth something or so easily available that it
was worth nothing. The guide price in the AH was something like 10s and
this is where being well informed can make a massive difference to your
"luck". Rather than just listing it for 30s buyout I tabbed over to my
browser and did a search on allakhazam. Which told me that the average
sell price for this recipe on the AH was 15GOLD!! 15g is effectivly a
gazzillion dollars when you are level 12 so I was quite excited. Rather
than AHing is straight away I put a message on the trade channel
offering it for 15G. In response I received a string of LOL's and
general abuse from people who thought I was off my tree and a greedy
little bugger to boot. Not to be easily deterred I put it up on the AH
with a start of 10g and a buyout of 20g and tried my luck.

It sold in two hours for 20g and I had a level 12 char with more money
than I thought I would have at level 30. Very very nice. Of course, the
moral of this story is that information is power and having a browser
running in the background is one of the most powerful "mods" you can
get.

However, I am interested to know what people think of the general use
of thottbot, allakhazam et al. Obviously, in this situation the
external information source provided me with a massive advantage over
somebody who does not use these tools and, given the focus on "justice"
and "fair play" in this group I am interested to know what people feel
of the "game morality" of these external databases.

Avoiding work,
Tony

>I recently started a new dwarven hunter, Oryan, on a low population
>realm as I was sick of the queues that I had to endure to play my main
>character. In any case, at level 12 I picked up the following from the
>corpse of some unfortunate beast, that had died in the jaws of my
>faithful bear Ursa:
>
>Recipe: Swiftness Potion
>
>Now, as I have never had an alchemist char I had absolutely no idea
>what this item was worth. So, I had a browse on the AH but no others
>were on sale for me to judge the price. I did however notice that the
>potions themselves were on sale for a couple of gold, so I figured the
>recipe had to be either worth something or so easily available that it
>was worth nothing. The guide price in the AH was something like 10s and
>this is where being well informed can make a massive difference to your
>"luck". Rather than just listing it for 30s buyout I tabbed over to my
>browser and did a search on allakhazam. Which told me that the average
>sell price for this recipe on the AH was 15GOLD!! 15g is effectivly a
>gazzillion dollars when you are level 12 so I was quite excited. Rather
>than AHing is straight away I put a message on the trade channel
>offering it for 15G. In response I received a string of LOL's and
>general abuse from people who thought I was off my tree and a greedy
>little bugger to boot. Not to be easily deterred I put it up on the AH
>with a start of 10g and a buyout of 20g and tried my luck.
>
>It sold in two hours for 20g and I had a level 12 char with more money
>than I thought I would have at level 30. Very very nice. Of course, the
>moral of this story is that information is power and having a browser
>running in the background is one of the most powerful "mods" you can
>get.
>
>However, I am interested to know what people think of the general use
>of thottbot, allakhazam et al. Obviously, in this situation the
>external information source provided me with a massive advantage over
>somebody who does not use these tools and, given the focus on "justice"
>and "fair play" in this group I am interested to know what people feel
>of the "game morality" of these external databases.

I've done this many times. Morality? If you received a vehicle as an
inheritance and had no idea the value, would you go ask a group of
people how much they would pay for it, and by the way it's for sale?
My point is, it's hard to get an unbiased answer from potential
purchasers and potential competitor salesmen. Checking Thottbot and
Allakhazam also keeps the prices on various servers around the same
level.


Bronzebeard PVE:
Lehi - 60 Human Paladin
Bathsheba - 60 Human Rogue
Avocat - 54 Gnome Warlock

Frostmane PVP:
Laban - 60 Troll Rogue

Tesseract wrote:
> However, I am interested to know what people think of the general use
> of thottbot, allakhazam et al. Obviously, in this situation the
> external information source provided me with a massive advantage over
> somebody who does not use these tools and, given the focus on "justice"
> and "fair play" in this group I am interested to know what people feel
> of the "game morality" of these external databases.

I have to bad luck to constantly meet people who think it
would be "cheating" to consult thottbot, but that there's
nothing wrong at all with spamming their questions in general
chat where the people who answer them will almost certainly
be just pasting in answer from a thottbot article.

They ask "where is X?" but make it abundantly clear that
they can't follow written directions, yet when you point
out that thottbot has X marked on a gawd-damned map and
all the sudden they get all coy? Stupidity knows no bounds.

--
Nathan Engle Computer Support, IUB Psych Dept
nengle@indiana.edu http://php.indiana.edu/~nengle
"Some Assembly Required"

Tesseract wrote:
> The guide price in the AH was something like 10s and
> this is where being well informed can make a massive difference to your
> "luck". Rather than just listing it for 30s buyout I tabbed over to my
> browser and did a search on allakhazam. Which told me that the average
> sell price for this recipe on the AH was 15GOLD!! 15g is effectivly a
> gazzillion dollars when you are level 12 so I was quite excited.

Indeed.. I was lucky enough to find one of those when I was quite low
level, and at the time it became the most valuable item I had ever
auctioned. Only got 8 gold for it, though, iirc.

Oh, and then, just a week or two back, I found another one (two, in 14
months of playing).. this time kept it for my alchemist alt. :-)

Cheers!
David...

On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 15:28:05 -0500, Nathan Engle wrote:
> Tesseract wrote:
>
> I have to bad luck to constantly meet people who think it
> would be "cheating" to consult thottbot, but that there's
> nothing wrong at all with spamming their questions in general
> chat where the people who answer them will almost certainly
> be just pasting in answer from a thottbot article.
>
> They ask "where is X?" but make it abundantly clear that
> they can't follow written directions, yet when you point
> out that thottbot has X marked on a gawd-damned map and
> all the sudden they get all coy? Stupidity knows no bounds.

And then you get those playing on a german server & client who
keep asking and you point them to thottbot and they say "oh, but
that's in english". 12 year olds FTW!

Urbin, feeling wicked tonight

--
Urbin (60), Dwarven Hunter (PvE) @dunmorogh.de
Sunh (34), Nightelven Priest (PvE) @dunmorogh.de
Gera (26), Human Paladin (PvE) @dunmorogh.de
Gorosh (5), Tauren Druid (PvP) @sunstrider.en

God I could use this recipe..as I have alchemy. I've tried searching for
what mobs to go for for this drop. No luck so far.

I think advertising it for 15 g was in bad taste. Why not put it as "WTS
{Recipe Swiftness Potion} pst w/offer. And field it that way. if you're
really greedy for the gold, then put it in AH.

Theresa

Personally, I'm of the opinion that people can sell items for whatever
they want. If you don't like the price, the solution is simple: don't
buy it and go find your own. Especially on an item like this which
could, thanks to Battlegrounds, make you a *whole* lot of money selling
the potions. I don't think an initial high investment is unreasonable
when it stands to profit you in the long run. And someone out there
obviously agrees with me, since the item sold for such a high price.

On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 22:09:36 -0500, downsized_diva wrote:
> I think advertising it for 15 g was in bad taste. Why not put it as "WTS
> {Recipe Swiftness Potion} pst w/offer. And field it that way. if you're
> really greedy for the gold, then put it in AH.

No, not bad taste at all. 15g is pretty much a reasonable price on my server
and people who are looking for that recipe will know that it is a reasonable
price. This way you save the buyer the hassle to check the AH plus you save
the AH fees. I don't see the bad taste in this at all.

Except maybe for doing it in the newbie zone in /1 instead of in the city /2
channels :-)

Cheers
Urbin

--
Urbin (60), Dwarven Hunter (PvE) @dunmorogh.de
Sunh (34), Nightelven Priest (PvE) @dunmorogh.de
Gera (26), Human Paladin (PvE) @dunmorogh.de
Gorosh (5), Tauren Druid (PvP) @sunstrider.en

On Everquest, you could do PC's (Price Checks) on the trade channels (e.g.
PC for Amazingly Sharp Sword) and usually people would give a fair estimate.
If someone tried to give a low estimate, people would usually correct them
and call them names. I guess WoW is just different that way. I kinda miss
Price checks though

-Aph

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 11:22:34 +0100, Apheliona wrote:
> On Everquest, you could do PC's (Price Checks) on the trade channels
> (e.g. PC for Amazingly Sharp Sword) and usually people would give a fair
> estimate. If someone tried to give a low estimate, people would usually
> correct them and call them names. I guess WoW is just different that way.
> I kinda miss Price checks though

I haven't tried a general channel for that but our guild channel gets a
fair amount of price inquiries of people who do not have an idea about the
value of an item. Usually someone in IF quickly checks the AH or one of us
with Auctioneer gives an estimate.

Cheers
Urbin

--
Urbin (60), Dwarven Hunter (PvE) @dunmorogh.de
Sunh (34), Nightelven Priest (PvE) @dunmorogh.de
Gera (26), Human Paladin (PvE) @dunmorogh.de
Gorosh (5), Tauren Druid (PvP) @sunstrider.en

On 25 Jan 2006 05:20:06 -0800, "Tesseract" <spam.foil@googlemail.com>
wrote:

>However, I am interested to know what people think of the general use
>of thottbot, allakhazam et al. Obviously, in this situation the
>external information source provided me with a massive advantage over
>somebody who does not use these tools and, given the focus on "justice"
>and "fair play" in this group I am interested to know what people feel
>of the "game morality" of these external databases.

Another take on this:

Many recipies are worth a few silver at best - basically not worth
dragging to the AH and selling, you would be better off vendoring it
at the nearest merchant and making space for other loot in your bag.

A few recipies, though, are rare and very usefull. The Swiftness pot
recipie being one of them - it is a pretty rare world drop from level
~10-15 mobs, so you can't really farm for it. But the pot itself is
very usefull in battlegrounds (mainly Warsong), and lots of people
wants them.
Yes, you went to Allakhazam and got some information that allowed you
to "extort" an extra 19-20 gold from some player - however, if you
hadn't then that recipie might as well been vendored, and that would
have been even worse...

Take another recipie: Formula: Enchant Shield - Lesser Block
That bastard is so rare that you pretty much can't find an enchanter
with it...
I know a few warriors who would give their right arm for that enchant,
and I shudder at the thought that somebody went and vendored it for
the 10 silver the NPC give for it. Much better that they go to
Allakhazam and then drop it on the AH with some inflated bidding
price.


And if somebody goes overboard and puts it up for an insane price?
Easy - don't buy it then...
At the very least you can send them an ingame mail stating that their
asking price is too high, but that you are willing to pay X - if their
auction goes a few days without bids they might decide to sell it to
you instead...

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann

downsized_diva wrote:
> God I could use this recipe..as I have alchemy. I've tried searching for
> what mobs to go for for this drop. No luck so far.
>
> I think advertising it for 15 g was in bad taste. Why not put it as "WTS
> {Recipe Swiftness Potion} pst w/offer. And field it that way. if you're
> really greedy for the gold, then put it in AH.
>
> Theresa

T, how is it bad taste? He put it up for what he understood it to go
for and he got a buyer. This is pretty much the way the game world
works. Are you suggesting he should have asked about and taken a lower
offer from someone in earshot? Whoever bought it has the potential to
make his money back selling the potions and knew what they wer doing.
Selling it cheap just means that someone can use it to make a bigger
profit selling pots. Chances are that the person who bought it would
have put it in the AH anyway knowing they could get more.
As for being greedy for gold, gold is central to this game, The game
has it's own economy and more gold eases you passage through the life
of your character. It's not like he bought it on Ebay, he found a
commodity and sold it and now has enough money to last him for a few
levels, it's not a fortune after all.

I'd like to see the altruistic server you play on

Damon