Wow, my hat is off to you guys if you managed to clear all of ST with
that 4 man void walker tank setup. Eranicus though, not a chance in
hell... even if you guys were tired of bad experiences with pug's I
would have suggested clearing close to him and then just going into LFG
to grab yourselves a WAR for eranicus fight turn on lootmaster and
get'er done. with a 4 man team that is hot enought to clear all of ST
adding the target dummie errr. tank and doing Erani should have been
cake. : )


R.C. Payne wrote:
> paul.brinkley@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > If it's about 5 elites, it's harder. You have several options. One,
> > get a really tough tank and/or healer, and just burn them down one at a
> > time. :-) (Hint: start with the smaller dragonkin first.) Two, try
> > CCing a few. Mages can't sheep them, but druids can sleep them,
> > pallies can stun one for a few seconds, rogues can gouge, CS, KS, and
> > blind, hunters can scattershot and scare, warriors can intimidating
> > shout, and locks can fear one if you plan ahead and pull them to where
> > the feared one(s) won't pull more packs. Three, try OTing a few. One
> > healer might not be able to keep one tank up against the whole pack,
> > while keeping up two tanks splitting the duty is often easier.
>
> Last time I did ST, we had a really unsuitable group: me (53 'lock), 52
> shadow priest, 53 mage and 54 rogue. We couldn't get a 5th man (we had
> a pally who left the party before we started the run, but we've had bad
> expereinces with PUGs that we felt 4 guildies was better than 4 guildies
> + 1 random), so we decided to do the best we could anyway. I took out
> my voidwalker to tank for us, and we went slowly and carefully, with
> much use of crowd control (the groups arround the top were great - one
> undead to shackle, a humanoid to sap, someone to sheep, and an imp to
> banish). Good use of CC and co-ordination of DPS meant we cleared to
> the dragons without a single wipe (though on one occasion the only thing
> that saved us was the soulstone on the priest). We expected the
> dragonkin would wipe the floor with us because we lost most of our crowd
> control (no shackle, no sap, no banish). Careful control again saved
> the day, and we cleared all the dragon kin, and we got all the way to
> the last boss where not even my trusty voidwalker could keep us alive.
> We all got our 50 class quests done, though. Just goes to show
> organisation, skill and patience is far more important than having the
> cookie cutter group (needless to say it was a guild run, and me, the
> priest and the mage are RL friends, who have leveled up together, in the
> case of me and the priest, we both already have 60s, we re-rolled
> because we wanted to go for RP).

<Kai19103@gmail.com> wrote:

> with a 4 man team that is hot enought to clear all of ST
> adding the target dummie errr. tank and doing Erani should have been
> cake. : )

We did the same thing once. Feral druid, BM hunter (me), holy priest,
frost mage, average level about 53.
We cleared the whole place in brute force method [TM] - that is do
as much damage to as many mobs as possible as fast as possible. We
pulled a bunch of dragonkin/trolls with my pet (initial aggro), the
mage and I did AoE, while the druid did single target damage. The
mage was essentially the tank. We cleared the whole place in under 2
hours without a single wipe.

Eranikus was a bitch though. My pet tanked him while the druid DPSed,
but then was slept (and I already used bestial wrath, stupid me). The
druid took over tanking, but got his taunt resisted, so Eranikus went
for the healer and killed him. But because that happened in the later
stage of the fight we still succeeded.

Unnecessary to say that this was a very fun run :-) And even though
I know that Babe will use this against me for the rest of my life:
I learned during that run that high DPS can make up for a lot )

Chris

PS: But to be honest, we played with each other in that setup since
level 10, and "practised" a week before in the same group with
our guild tank :-)

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (60) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Gwaith - Short beastmaster (60) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]
Sian - Best friend (60) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]
Yagon - Pointy eared beast (20) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]

<Kai19103@gmail.com> wrote:

> with a 4 man team that is hot enought to clear all of ST
> adding the target dummie errr. tank and doing Erani should have been
> cake. : )

We did the same thing once. Feral druid, BM hunter (me), holy priest,
frost mage, average level about 53.
We cleared the whole place in brute force method [TM] - that is do
as much damage to as many mobs as possible as fast as possible. We
pulled a bunch of dragonkin/trolls with my pet (initial aggro), the
mage and I did AoE, while the druid did single target damage. The
mage was essentially the tank. We cleared the whole place in under 2
hours without a single wipe.

Eranikus was a bitch though. My pet tanked him while the druid DPSed,
but then was slept (and I already used bestial wrath, stupid me). The
druid took over tanking, but got his taunt resisted, so Eranikus went
for the healer and killed him. But because that happened in the later
stage of the fight we still succeeded.

Unnecessary to say that this was a very fun run :-) And even though
I know that Babe will use this against me for the rest of my life:
I learned during that run that high DPS can make up for a lot )

Chris

PS: But to be honest, we played with each other in that setup since
level 10, and "practised" a week before in the same group with
our guild tank :-)

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (60) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Gwaith - Short beastmaster (60) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]
Sian - Best friend (60) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]
Yagon - Pointy eared beast (20) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]

<Kai19103@gmail.com> wrote:

> with a 4 man team that is hot enought to clear all of ST
> adding the target dummie errr. tank and doing Erani should have been
> cake. : )

We did the same thing once. Feral druid, BM hunter (me), holy priest,
frost mage, average level about 53.
We cleared the whole place in brute force method [TM] - that is do
as much damage to as many mobs as possible as fast as possible. We
pulled a bunch of dragonkin/trolls with my pet (initial aggro), the
mage and I did AoE, while the druid did single target damage. The
mage was essentially the tank. We cleared the whole place in under 2
hours without a single wipe.

Eranikus was a bitch though. My pet tanked him while the druid DPSed,
but then was slept (and I already used bestial wrath, stupid me). The
druid took over tanking, but got his taunt resisted, so Eranikus went
for the healer and killed him. But because that happened in the later
stage of the fight we still succeeded.

Unnecessary to say that this was a very fun run :-) And even though
I know that Babe will use this against me for the rest of my life:
I learned during that run that high DPS can make up for a lot )

Chris

PS: But to be honest, we played with each other in that setup since
level 10, and "practised" a week before in the same group with
our guild tank :-)

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (60) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Gwaith - Short beastmaster (60) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]
Sian - Best friend (60) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]
Yagon - Pointy eared beast (20) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]

Eric D. Braden wrote:
>
> Everyone's pretty much laid out all the good details here,
> so I'll just add a few more.

I'll do the same, with a couple comments on yours.

> ZF: Fun, with half-assed loot. The pyramid event is pretty
> great, and hard before you get used to it. The loot is very
> hit-and-miss. Quite a bit of it is complete junk, but then
> there are some phenomenal pieces (Zumrah's Vexing
> Cane, the Bad Mojo Mask (or whatever :P), and I can't
> remember, but I think there's something really nice for
> warriors on the chief).

Completely agreed on all counts for ZF. My wife and I were a bit
undergeared before coming into ZF a little early (44 for me as a
warrior, 43 for her as a priest) with a mid-50s rogue, 49 hunter and 49
paladin, all Guildies (though I always regret grouping with that
hunter, nice guy that he normally is), and the first run, she got
absolutely nothing useful. Second run, two-plus levels later (both
46), she got Zum'rah's Cane.

The warrior thing you're thinking of is the Big Bad Pauldrons from
Chief Ukorz. There are also two things that drop in there that are
absolutely stellar when combined... Sang'Thraze and Jang'Thraze (both
1H swords). My first run through, Sang'Thraze dropped. At this point,
the Guild has one Sul'Thraze (on a warlock, who didn't realize Sul' is
2H before combining his pieces), my Sang, and our second warrior 60 has
Jang'Thraze.

> Mara

I've never actually done Mara. On my old hunter, I went straight from
ZF to ST, though I kept on intending to get in on a PUG for the
Trickster Leggings. One thing, though: Mara has a decent selection of
Nature Res loot, if that becomes important to you.

> ST: You know, if my RL friends and I could ever have
> mid-50s characters at the same time, I might like this
> place... but....I've PuG'd it waaayy too many times to
> not hate it. It's very long, relatively non-linear (like
> BRD, you could spend 3 hours or 6 hours in there),
> and it has some very difficult fights if your group isn't
> good.

I actually enjoy ST. My wife considers ST her second-favorite instance
(after UBRS), too. That said, we did have a 60 rogue friend always
willing to come along with us in lower-level instances, making it much
easier to find groups (though this was before we had two computers, so
we couldn't get into the same group with each other). The big secret
about ST is just knowing the layout of the instance (people always
describe it as a maze, but once you've looked at it in detail, you
realize that it's just two big rings (statues and trolls) with a cap
(dragons, Hakkar) and floor (Altar, oozes, elementals, Atal'Alarion),
and a few links between them), and not making stupid pulls.

> Mainly talking about Eranikus... I've killed him maybe
> 4 times out of 20+ attempts in PuGs, that sleep is
> killer....

Eranikus is just not a fight PUGs should generally even attempt,
particularly if anyone in the fight is underleveled or undergeared.
I've seen exceptional groups wiped there from a few members being
underleveled or undergeared.

> The Hakkar event is also very tough, but it's actually a
> lot of fun, in that it's a pretty unconventional fight.

Agreed. There's more breathing room in that fight than most people
realize, too, if you're patient and know what to kill, and when. PUGs
just seem to freak out at the sheer number of enemies, and get
distracted by the ghostly Avatar before it's ready.

--
Nik

Eric D. Braden wrote:
>
> Everyone's pretty much laid out all the good details here,
> so I'll just add a few more.

I'll do the same, with a couple comments on yours.

> ZF: Fun, with half-assed loot. The pyramid event is pretty
> great, and hard before you get used to it. The loot is very
> hit-and-miss. Quite a bit of it is complete junk, but then
> there are some phenomenal pieces (Zumrah's Vexing
> Cane, the Bad Mojo Mask (or whatever :P), and I can't
> remember, but I think there's something really nice for
> warriors on the chief).

Completely agreed on all counts for ZF. My wife and I were a bit
undergeared before coming into ZF a little early (44 for me as a
warrior, 43 for her as a priest) with a mid-50s rogue, 49 hunter and 49
paladin, all Guildies (though I always regret grouping with that
hunter, nice guy that he normally is), and the first run, she got
absolutely nothing useful. Second run, two-plus levels later (both
46), she got Zum'rah's Cane.

The warrior thing you're thinking of is the Big Bad Pauldrons from
Chief Ukorz. There are also two things that drop in there that are
absolutely stellar when combined... Sang'Thraze and Jang'Thraze (both
1H swords). My first run through, Sang'Thraze dropped. At this point,
the Guild has one Sul'Thraze (on a warlock, who didn't realize Sul' is
2H before combining his pieces), my Sang, and our second warrior 60 has
Jang'Thraze.

> Mara

I've never actually done Mara. On my old hunter, I went straight from
ZF to ST, though I kept on intending to get in on a PUG for the
Trickster Leggings. One thing, though: Mara has a decent selection of
Nature Res loot, if that becomes important to you.

> ST: You know, if my RL friends and I could ever have
> mid-50s characters at the same time, I might like this
> place... but....I've PuG'd it waaayy too many times to
> not hate it. It's very long, relatively non-linear (like
> BRD, you could spend 3 hours or 6 hours in there),
> and it has some very difficult fights if your group isn't
> good.

I actually enjoy ST. My wife considers ST her second-favorite instance
(after UBRS), too. That said, we did have a 60 rogue friend always
willing to come along with us in lower-level instances, making it much
easier to find groups (though this was before we had two computers, so
we couldn't get into the same group with each other). The big secret
about ST is just knowing the layout of the instance (people always
describe it as a maze, but once you've looked at it in detail, you
realize that it's just two big rings (statues and trolls) with a cap
(dragons, Hakkar) and floor (Altar, oozes, elementals, Atal'Alarion),
and a few links between them), and not making stupid pulls.

> Mainly talking about Eranikus... I've killed him maybe
> 4 times out of 20+ attempts in PuGs, that sleep is
> killer....

Eranikus is just not a fight PUGs should generally even attempt,
particularly if anyone in the fight is underleveled or undergeared.
I've seen exceptional groups wiped there from a few members being
underleveled or undergeared.

> The Hakkar event is also very tough, but it's actually a
> lot of fun, in that it's a pretty unconventional fight.

Agreed. There's more breathing room in that fight than most people
realize, too, if you're patient and know what to kill, and when. PUGs
just seem to freak out at the sheer number of enemies, and get
distracted by the ghostly Avatar before it's ready.

--
Nik

Eric D. Braden wrote:
>
> Everyone's pretty much laid out all the good details here,
> so I'll just add a few more.

I'll do the same, with a couple comments on yours.

> ZF: Fun, with half-assed loot. The pyramid event is pretty
> great, and hard before you get used to it. The loot is very
> hit-and-miss. Quite a bit of it is complete junk, but then
> there are some phenomenal pieces (Zumrah's Vexing
> Cane, the Bad Mojo Mask (or whatever :P), and I can't
> remember, but I think there's something really nice for
> warriors on the chief).

Completely agreed on all counts for ZF. My wife and I were a bit
undergeared before coming into ZF a little early (44 for me as a
warrior, 43 for her as a priest) with a mid-50s rogue, 49 hunter and 49
paladin, all Guildies (though I always regret grouping with that
hunter, nice guy that he normally is), and the first run, she got
absolutely nothing useful. Second run, two-plus levels later (both
46), she got Zum'rah's Cane.

The warrior thing you're thinking of is the Big Bad Pauldrons from
Chief Ukorz. There are also two things that drop in there that are
absolutely stellar when combined... Sang'Thraze and Jang'Thraze (both
1H swords). My first run through, Sang'Thraze dropped. At this point,
the Guild has one Sul'Thraze (on a warlock, who didn't realize Sul' is
2H before combining his pieces), my Sang, and our second warrior 60 has
Jang'Thraze.

> Mara

I've never actually done Mara. On my old hunter, I went straight from
ZF to ST, though I kept on intending to get in on a PUG for the
Trickster Leggings. One thing, though: Mara has a decent selection of
Nature Res loot, if that becomes important to you.

> ST: You know, if my RL friends and I could ever have
> mid-50s characters at the same time, I might like this
> place... but....I've PuG'd it waaayy too many times to
> not hate it. It's very long, relatively non-linear (like
> BRD, you could spend 3 hours or 6 hours in there),
> and it has some very difficult fights if your group isn't
> good.

I actually enjoy ST. My wife considers ST her second-favorite instance
(after UBRS), too. That said, we did have a 60 rogue friend always
willing to come along with us in lower-level instances, making it much
easier to find groups (though this was before we had two computers, so
we couldn't get into the same group with each other). The big secret
about ST is just knowing the layout of the instance (people always
describe it as a maze, but once you've looked at it in detail, you
realize that it's just two big rings (statues and trolls) with a cap
(dragons, Hakkar) and floor (Altar, oozes, elementals, Atal'Alarion),
and a few links between them), and not making stupid pulls.

> Mainly talking about Eranikus... I've killed him maybe
> 4 times out of 20+ attempts in PuGs, that sleep is
> killer....

Eranikus is just not a fight PUGs should generally even attempt,
particularly if anyone in the fight is underleveled or undergeared.
I've seen exceptional groups wiped there from a few members being
underleveled or undergeared.

> The Hakkar event is also very tough, but it's actually a
> lot of fun, in that it's a pretty unconventional fight.

Agreed. There's more breathing room in that fight than most people
realize, too, if you're patient and know what to kill, and when. PUGs
just seem to freak out at the sheer number of enemies, and get
distracted by the ghostly Avatar before it's ready.

--
Nik

I think it was "R.C. Payne" <rcp27@nospam.ac.uk> that wrote something
like...

>paul.brinkley@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> If it's about 5 elites, it's harder. You have several options. One,
>> get a really tough tank and/or healer, and just burn them down one at a
>> time. :-) (Hint: start with the smaller dragonkin first.) Two, try
>> CCing a few. Mages can't sheep them, but druids can sleep them,
>> pallies can stun one for a few seconds, rogues can gouge, CS, KS, and
>> blind, hunters can scattershot and scare, warriors can intimidating
>> shout, and locks can fear one if you plan ahead and pull them to where
>> the feared one(s) won't pull more packs. Three, try OTing a few. One
>> healer might not be able to keep one tank up against the whole pack,
>> while keeping up two tanks splitting the duty is often easier.
>
>Last time I did ST, we had a really unsuitable group: me (53 'lock), 52
>shadow priest, 53 mage and 54 rogue.

Recently did a ST run in my guild. A fairly interesting group make up
I believe. 3 warriors, 1 druid, 1 priest. I was the priest (11 holy,
40 shadow spec) and was the highest at 60. The druid went cat form,
and of the three warriors, one had sword and board, one had a polearm
and the 3rd was duel wielding. They were all around 53. The sword
and boarder hitting 53 during the run. In general it didn't seem to
be too much trouble for us. Wiped trying to get Hakkar out, but a lot
of that I think was that none of us had done it before and weren't too
sure what we were doing. Had a 2nd wipe going into the room that's
behind that green barrier. On the first pull, one of the warriors got
feared into the room and into another 3 mobs. What with fears going
left right and centre, we only killed 4 of the 6 before we ended up
dead. Might have squeaked through if I'd been mostly holy specced, or
had some mana potions on me. After that, managed the rest of the room
fine. And the Erankus (however it's spelt) fight was a bit of a
snooze really. From my point of view at least. (no pun intended).
Was much funner when I was in a PUG with another shadow priest and we
had agro on one of us most of the fight. ; )

Ashen Shugar
--
The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule!

I think it was "R.C. Payne" <rcp27@nospam.ac.uk> that wrote something
like...

>paul.brinkley@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> If it's about 5 elites, it's harder. You have several options. One,
>> get a really tough tank and/or healer, and just burn them down one at a
>> time. :-) (Hint: start with the smaller dragonkin first.) Two, try
>> CCing a few. Mages can't sheep them, but druids can sleep them,
>> pallies can stun one for a few seconds, rogues can gouge, CS, KS, and
>> blind, hunters can scattershot and scare, warriors can intimidating
>> shout, and locks can fear one if you plan ahead and pull them to where
>> the feared one(s) won't pull more packs. Three, try OTing a few. One
>> healer might not be able to keep one tank up against the whole pack,
>> while keeping up two tanks splitting the duty is often easier.
>
>Last time I did ST, we had a really unsuitable group: me (53 'lock), 52
>shadow priest, 53 mage and 54 rogue.

Recently did a ST run in my guild. A fairly interesting group make up
I believe. 3 warriors, 1 druid, 1 priest. I was the priest (11 holy,
40 shadow spec) and was the highest at 60. The druid went cat form,
and of the three warriors, one had sword and board, one had a polearm
and the 3rd was duel wielding. They were all around 53. The sword
and boarder hitting 53 during the run. In general it didn't seem to
be too much trouble for us. Wiped trying to get Hakkar out, but a lot
of that I think was that none of us had done it before and weren't too
sure what we were doing. Had a 2nd wipe going into the room that's
behind that green barrier. On the first pull, one of the warriors got
feared into the room and into another 3 mobs. What with fears going
left right and centre, we only killed 4 of the 6 before we ended up
dead. Might have squeaked through if I'd been mostly holy specced, or
had some mana potions on me. After that, managed the rest of the room
fine. And the Erankus (however it's spelt) fight was a bit of a
snooze really. From my point of view at least. (no pun intended).
Was much funner when I was in a PUG with another shadow priest and we
had agro on one of us most of the fight. ; )

Ashen Shugar
--
The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule!

I think it was "R.C. Payne" <rcp27@nospam.ac.uk> that wrote something
like...

>paul.brinkley@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> If it's about 5 elites, it's harder. You have several options. One,
>> get a really tough tank and/or healer, and just burn them down one at a
>> time. :-) (Hint: start with the smaller dragonkin first.) Two, try
>> CCing a few. Mages can't sheep them, but druids can sleep them,
>> pallies can stun one for a few seconds, rogues can gouge, CS, KS, and
>> blind, hunters can scattershot and scare, warriors can intimidating
>> shout, and locks can fear one if you plan ahead and pull them to where
>> the feared one(s) won't pull more packs. Three, try OTing a few. One
>> healer might not be able to keep one tank up against the whole pack,
>> while keeping up two tanks splitting the duty is often easier.
>
>Last time I did ST, we had a really unsuitable group: me (53 'lock), 52
>shadow priest, 53 mage and 54 rogue.

Recently did a ST run in my guild. A fairly interesting group make up
I believe. 3 warriors, 1 druid, 1 priest. I was the priest (11 holy,
40 shadow spec) and was the highest at 60. The druid went cat form,
and of the three warriors, one had sword and board, one had a polearm
and the 3rd was duel wielding. They were all around 53. The sword
and boarder hitting 53 during the run. In general it didn't seem to
be too much trouble for us. Wiped trying to get Hakkar out, but a lot
of that I think was that none of us had done it before and weren't too
sure what we were doing. Had a 2nd wipe going into the room that's
behind that green barrier. On the first pull, one of the warriors got
feared into the room and into another 3 mobs. What with fears going
left right and centre, we only killed 4 of the 6 before we ended up
dead. Might have squeaked through if I'd been mostly holy specced, or
had some mana potions on me. After that, managed the rest of the room
fine. And the Erankus (however it's spelt) fight was a bit of a
snooze really. From my point of view at least. (no pun intended).
Was much funner when I was in a PUG with another shadow priest and we
had agro on one of us most of the fight. ; )

Ashen Shugar
--
The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule!