See my post re: Got Expertise.

Is this like like extra hit?

Or is it the other way around?

This is like Sunder Armor without having to Sunder?

Bah, so many mods so little time.

Orion

"Orion Ryder" <orionryder@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a5075660-2e1f-4f88-a572-bb00339d7def@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
> See my post re: Got Expertise.
>
> Is this like like extra hit?

No, Expertise is more related to hit than ArP is. See my response to you
there.

> Or is it the other way around?

More the other way around.

> This is like Sunder Armor without having to Sunder?

Not exactly. Essentially, it lets you ignore a part of your opponent's
armor(and IIRC, it works even against an enemy whose armor has been
sundered), but only for you(whereas Sunder Armor works for anything who hits
the target with an attack that's reduced by armor.

> Bah, so many mods so little time.
>
> Orion

On Sep 8, 9:28*am, "Shiflet" <rshif...@charter.net> wrote:
> "Orion Ryder" <orionry...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:a5075660-2e1f-4f88-a572-bb00339d7def@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
>
> > See my post re: Got Expertise.
>
> > Is this like like extra hit?
>
> No, Expertise is more related to hit than ArP is. See my response to you
> there.
>
> > Or is it the other way around?
>
> More the other way around.
>
> > This is like Sunder Armor without having to Sunder?
>
> Not exactly. Essentially, it lets you ignore a part of your opponent's
> armor(and IIRC, it works even against an enemy whose armor has been
> sundered), but only for you(whereas Sunder Armor works for anything who hits
> the target with an attack that's reduced by armor.
>
>
>
> > Bah, so many mods so little time.
>
> > Orion- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yeah I meant Sunder Armor but only for you as opposed to anything.

So then how does ArP comapre with AP?

And if a piece of Mail has expertise then that would be for an
Enhancement Shaman more than anyone else?

Jsut trying to fine tune my understandings.

Orion

"Orion Ryder" <orionryder@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:384a6d1a-390a-449e-ac8e-3e3a16350d8d@31g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 8, 9:28 am, "Shiflet" <rshif...@charter.net> wrote:
> So then how does ArP comapre with AP?

I don't honestly know. From what I've read in my occasional research into
classes I don't play but might want to, it seems AP>ArP overall for rogues
and enhance shamans, and I read something about dual wielding Obliterate
based DKs considering ArP a somewhat important stat. Haven't a clue about
how useful it is to pallies, warriors, or other DKs.

>And if a piece of Mail has expertise then that would be for an
Enhancement Shaman more than anyone else?

Yeah. While only about half their damage comes from meleeing, getting a
Stormstrike parried is still a bad thing.

>Orion

Shiflet wrote:
>> So then how does ArP comapre with AP?
>
> I don't honestly know. From what I've read in my occasional research into
> classes I don't play but might want to, it seems AP>ArP overall for rogues
> and enhance shamans, and I read something about dual wielding Obliterate
> based DKs considering ArP a somewhat important stat. Haven't a clue about
> how useful it is to pallies, warriors, or other DKs.

ArP gets better and better the more ArP you have (200 ArP is more than
twice as good as 100ArP, etcetera!!). ArP is so overpowered for DPS
warriors (they do the maximum amount of physical damage so profit most
of ArP) that Blizz is nerfing it back a bit. It's really good for
certain Hunter specs (a marksman spec that buffs steady shots over
everything else if I recall clearly)

The best DPS warriors are stacking ArP over all other stats at this
moment, and doing totally insane amounts of damage...

--
Greets, Thomas.
Bulgaroth (Hunter), Latigo (DK) and Darkhulk (Druid), on Argent Dawn EU.

Orion Ryder wrote:
> And if a piece of Mail has expertise then that would be for an
> Enhancement Shaman more than anyone else?

Of the three shaman specs, enhancement is the only one that uses any of
Expertise, AP or ArP.

Have not looked at hunters, but can't see why they would not also use
these stats, especially for a survival hunter who doesn't mind actually
using a melee weapon.

But to be honest, I don't know if Expertise and ArP work with ranged
damage, but can't see any reason why they would not.

"Kilgaard" <Kilgaard@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bkFpm.186895$Qg6.58535@newsfe14.iad...

> Have not looked at hunters, but can't see why they would not also use
> these stats, especially for a survival hunter who doesn't mind actually
> using a melee weapon.

Even survival hunters who are meleeing are only doing it because they have
no other choice.

> But to be honest, I don't know if Expertise and ArP work with ranged
> damage, but can't see any reason why they would not.

Expertise doesn't benefit ranged damage. ArP does, as long as it's ranged
physical damage.

Kilgaard wrote:
> Orion Ryder wrote:
>> And if a piece of Mail has expertise then that would be for an
>> Enhancement Shaman more than anyone else?
>
> Of the three shaman specs, enhancement is the only one that uses any of
> Expertise, AP or ArP.
>
> Have not looked at hunters, but can't see why they would not also use
> these stats, especially for a survival hunter who doesn't mind actually
> using a melee weapon.
>
> But to be honest, I don't know if Expertise and ArP work with ranged
> damage, but can't see any reason why they would not.

Ranged attacks cannot be dodged, blocked or parried, so expertise is
totally useless for any hunter using his head (and his ranged weapon).
Meleeing hunters benefit from expertise, but they, imho, should be shot
themselves ;-)
(Yes I know in some soloing situations you might end up in melee, but
your main damage comes from your ranged weapon.)

Armor penetration on the other hand is a really nice to have stat for
hunters, there are actually some builds that only work with enough armor
penetration (over 27% or sumtin).

--
Greets, Thomas.
Bulgaroth (Hunter), Latigo (DK), Darkhulk (Druid), and Smallwall
(Paladin) on Argent Dawn EU.

ThomasH wrote:
> Kilgaard wrote:
>> But to be honest, I don't know if Expertise and ArP work with ranged
>> damage, but can't see any reason why they would not.
>
> Ranged attacks cannot be dodged, blocked or parried, so expertise is
> totally useless for any hunter using his head (and his ranged weapon).
> Meleeing hunters benefit from expertise, but they, imho, should be shot
> themselves ;-)

Does Expertise work for the pet? That is, if the hunter has expertise do
the pets attacks have less chance to be dodged?

Kilgaard wrote:
> ThomasH wrote:
>> Kilgaard wrote:
>>> But to be honest, I don't know if Expertise and ArP work with ranged
>>> damage, but can't see any reason why they would not.
>>
>> Ranged attacks cannot be dodged, blocked or parried, so expertise is
>> totally useless for any hunter using his head (and his ranged weapon).
>> Meleeing hunters benefit from expertise, but they, imho, should be
>> shot themselves ;-)
>
> Does Expertise work for the pet? That is, if the hunter has expertise do
> the pets attacks have less chance to be dodged?

I can't find anything to say that a Hunter's expertise passes to the
pet. I can find a post on Elitist Jerks that says that a Hunter's hit
rating passes to the pet as expertise.

(http://elitistjerks.com/f74/t37714-hit_rating/)

It's the first post in that thread that mentions this and it doesn't say
whether the hit rating also passes through as additional hit rating or
if it's entirely converted to expertise.

This would make sense if expertise is useless for a hunter. It would be
desirable for a hunter's pet but not for the hunter so this conversion
means that the hunter doesn't need to get a particular stat on his gear
for the sole benefit of raising his pet's dps.

steve.kaye
--
Jengu - 80 Undead Death Knight Clokk - 74 Tauren Druid
Jelan - 80 Troll Priest Miho - 72 Blood Elf Rogue
Kibbs - 80 Blood Elf Paladin Jaille - 70 Blood Elf Warlock

On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 07:18:16 +0200, ThomasH wrote:
> Kilgaard wrote:
> > Orion Ryder wrote:
> >> And if a piece of Mail has expertise then that would be for an
> >> Enhancement Shaman more than anyone else?
> >
> > But to be honest, I don't know if Expertise and ArP work with ranged
> > damage, but can't see any reason why they would not.
>
> Armor penetration on the other hand is a really nice to have stat for
> hunters, there are actually some builds that only work with enough armor
> penetration (over 27% or sumtin).

I have actually read a post somewhere that explained why ArP was a wasted
stat for hunters. I don't recall the details but I think it had to do with
not stacking with some warrior ability (maybe sunder armour?). I checked but
for the life of me can't find the article any more.

Cheers
Urbin

--
Dun Morogh-EU (PvE)
Urbin (80), Dwarven Hunter | Surana (64), Draenei Mage
Mymule (78), Gnomish Warlock | Kordosch (65), Human Death Knight
Sunh (71), Nightelven Priest | Juran (33), Nightelven Druid

Urbin <urbin@invalid.invalid> wrote in
news:slrnhah7q2.kdq.urbin@stinky-local.trash.net:

>>
>> Armor penetration on the other hand is a really nice to have stat
>> for hunters, there are actually some builds that only work with
>> enough armor penetration (over 27% or sumtin).
>
> I have actually read a post somewhere that explained why ArP was a
> wasted stat for hunters. I don't recall the details but I think it had
> to do with not stacking with some warrior ability (maybe sunder
> armour?). I checked but for the life of me can't find the article any
> more.

I read something like that. The question was : ArP or crit for a hunter?

The problem with ArP is that the calculation will occurs after the
sundering of a warrior.

I found the link :

http://www.wow.com/2008/12/27/bigred...ration-stinks/